From WikiIslam

DEBATE IF TORAH OR KORAN IS MORE VIOLENT.

I was challenged by the muslims to debate if Torah or Koran is more violent. Im not exactly sure what that means does it mean how many people got killed in each book and the most killed is the more violent. Or is it the teachings of the books which one teaches violence more. In the first round we will attempt to concentrate on the former.

The muslim showed me these verses in Torah claiming they were violent. The law in the Torah is that thou shall not worship any other gods and the penalty is death. So I don’t see how this muslim guy can claim this is violent. In his book an adulterer is stoned to death would he call that violent? Well his fellow muslims don’t think so see url below. These verses say that it has to first go to the courts and inquire very diligently. Since when does a court imposed sentence become a violent act? So let us reiterate there is a law against doing something the punishment is prescribed and the court carries out the punishment no act of violence.

Lashing, stoning, mutilating: Islamic law is barbaric and outdated. Defend the case of Islam. by Abdullah Mohammed http://www.jannah.org/morearticles/4.html Deuteronomy 13: 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

Now we will investigate the violence in koran. Do you know the first recorded murder in koran and in the Torah was by a muslim. He was the son of a prophet too.

"Adam is the first prophet of Islam and the first human being. He was created by God but brought to life forty days after being kept as a dry body." He is an important figure in Judaism and Christianity as well and he is best known for the story of Adam and Eve.

[5.27] And relate to them the story of the two sons of Adam with truth when they both offered an offering, but it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. He said: I I will most certainly slay you. (The other) said: Allah only accepts from those who guard (against evil).

[5.28] If you will stretch forth your hand towards me to slay me, I am not one to stretch forth my hand towards you to slay you surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds:

But his evil self induced him to kill his brother, and so he killed him and became one of the lost ones. [5.30]

Now let us investigate even further. Here are many verses where their allah goes on a destruction spree to kill every one and destroy. What were the crimes of these people? Well let’s look at verse 10.13 “THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE” 25.36 “REJECTED OUR COMMUNICATIONS” 25.37 “REJECTED THE APOSTLES” Not one specific crime is specified in these verses and the theme is that they rejected their allah. Now you tell me the musliims constantly post this verse.

[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Isn’t this the most violent acts committed against anybody that you have ever seen? After telling the people that they can have any religion and worship who they want their allah kills them for not worshiping him. This is the most vilest act of treachery and violence I have ever known.

[10.13] And certainly We did destroy generations before you when they were unjust, and their apostles had come to them with clear arguments, and they would not believe; thus do We recompense the guilty people.

[17.17] And how many of the generations did We destroy after Nuh! and your Lord is sufficient as Knowing and Seeing with regard to His servants' faults.

Here their allah kills whole generations before and after Nuh. Nuh is the Noah of the torah. So as far as killing more people the Koran has the Torah beat long long ways. In the The Torah Noahs fllod took place about 1500 years after the first man. However the muslims claim,

THIS FROM THE SHOWMAN ZAKIR NAIK FEATURED ON http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/ “However, the Qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘Ayyaam’. ‘Ayyaam’ is the plural of ‘Yaum’ which has two meanings: firstly, a standard twenty-four hours’ period i.e. a ‘day’ and secondly this Arabic word also means a stage, a period or an epoch consisting of a very long period of time. Here the Qur’an refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs, which the scientists have no objection to. According to science the creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which contradicts with the concept of creation given in the Bible, which states it took six earth days of twenty-four hours.” http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/ques20g.htm,

that their allah did not exactly know how long or when he created the universe however it was long periods and he left it up to the scientists to decide when exactly this was. Well the scientist say that the universe is about 13 million years old. This makes the first man born way way before the Torah says. So at the time of Noah there were many many more people around that their allah killed. So if you count the numbers of people approximately killed in the verses below in every instance we can see the koran is more violent in the number killed and the act of treachery as to why they were killed. About the teachings of violence in Koran that we will leave for second round.

“External Timeline A graphical timeline is available here: Graphical timeline of the Big Bang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Based on measurements of the expansion of the universe using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, and measurements of the correlation function of galaxies, the universe has a calculated age of 13.7 ± 0.2 billion years. The agreement of these three independent measurements strongly supports the so-called ΛCDM model that describes in detail the contents of the universe”

[25.36] Then We said: Go you both to the people who rejected Our communications; so We destroyed them with utter destruction.

[25.37] And the people of Nuh, when they rejected the apostles, We drowned them, and made them a sign for men, and We have prepared a painful punishment for the unjust;

[25.38] And Ad and Samood and the dwellers of the Rass and many generations between them.

[25.39] And to every one We gave examples and every one did We destroy with utter destruction.

[25.40] And certainly they have (often) passed by the town on which was rained an evil rain; did they not then see it? Nay! they did not hope to be raised again.

[7.4] And how many a town that We destroyed, so Our punishment came to it by night or while they slept at midday.

The muslims claim that they only fight to defend themselves. Does any one in their right mind think that attacking people while they sleep is self defense.

[13.32] And apostles before you were certainly mocked at, but I gave respite to those who disbelieved, then I destroyed them; how then was My requital (of evil)?

[18.59] And (as for) these towns, We destroyed them when they acted unjustly, and We have appointed a time for their destruction.

[21.6] There did not believe before them any town which We destroyed, will they then believe?

[27.51] See, then, how was the end of their plan that We destroyed them and their people, all (of them).

[37.136] Then We destroyed the others.

[40.21] Have they not travelled in the earth and seen how was the end of those who were before them? Mightier than these were they in strength-- and in fortific

[44.37] Are they better or the people of Tubba and those before them? We destroyed them, for surely they were guilty.

[46.27] And certainly We destroyed the towns which are around you, and We repeat the communications that they might turn.

053.053 YUSUFALI: And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).

Koran is a book where there is no law against rape, kidnapping and stealing is punished more harshly than murder and this muslim claims the Torah is more violent.

The harshest punishments in koran is adultery and stealing. The reason for this is that when a dictator first gets into power he always enacts laws that benefit him the most. Since their prophet allowed himself 20% of the booty he had to make strict punishment for stealing so that no one steals from him. Also muhamed needed to make adultery a severe punishment to make sure no one goes with his many wives. On the Islamic web site below it says the severe punishment for stealing and adultery is to prevent it in the first place. If this is the case why no severe punishment for rape, kidnapping and murder and in fact punishment for rape and kidnapping are absent in Koran. The muslims have a nerve to call their muhamed like Moses. Moses never took one cent of the booty the Jews took in their wars.

http://www.jannah.org/morearticles/4.html

“The first and most severe type of punishments are known as the hudood (singular haad) meaning a thing which restrains or prevents since a punishment "prevents a man from doing” crimes".

Now the muslim complained about this verse 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

The muslim objected that any god who would kill innocent animals not for eating or sacrifice is not a god.

Well than will see according to this criterion if their allah is a god.

11.40 Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family-- except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.

Two of every thing we ask the muslim what does that mean is this not animals. What about the rest of the animals were they not killed in the flood didn’t the muslim say any god that kills innocent animals not for eating or sacrifice is not a god. Well the muslim just admitted that his god is not a god.

So muslim we hope to see your apostasy letter on this web site soon. http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/ _________________ LEAVE YOUR ALLAH NOW DON'T BE A FATALITY JOIN HUMANITY